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Is the MPJ+ joystick a direct swap for the SPJ+?


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Author Topic: Is the MPJ+ joystick a direct swap for the SPJ+?  (Read 1701 times)
SweetBearCub
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« on: August 01, 2009, 09:10:46 am »

I have a TDX SP with the MK6i electronics and an SPJ+ joystick (which, oddly enough, says "MK5 SPJ+" on the label on the bottom of it).

I may have a chance to buy an MK6i MPJ+ joystick from a neighbor who got some parts from a wrecked chair for a battle bot project.

I'd like to have the joystick, even though I have no power options, since it has a more sensitive battery meter (10 units instead of Cool and it can support various profiles, such as one for maximum speed/responsiveness outdoors, a much more conservative setup indoors, another for maximum torque when needed, and one more with minimum settings for when my batteries are almost dead and I'm limping home.

Are these two joysticks a direct swap?

Thanks!
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jakeyboy1
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 06:04:36 pm »

In MK6 you can swap. However, you will need to make sure you get the adaptor cable from the other wreaked chair.  For the MPJ you need a 4pin to 7(or 9,not sure) pin adaptor cable.
Furthermore, in the MK6 world, all program settings are stored in the joystick. When you plug in the new joystick you bring all the settings from the other chair. You will need a programmer to "erase all" and re-program to your chair.  This is not hard to do, just making you aware of what you need to do.

If you decide to do, I will email you step by step instrucrtions if you need them.

My 2 cents. The MPJ is way better then the SPJ.
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 06:50:11 pm »

Quote from: jakeyboy1;1855
In MK6 you can swap. However, you will need to make sure you get the adaptor cable from the other wreaked chair.  For the MPJ you need a 4pin to 7(or 9,not sure) pin adaptor cable.
Furthermore, in the MK6 world, all program settings are stored in the joystick. When you plug in the new joystick you bring all the settings from the other chair. You will need a programmer to "erase all" and re-program to your chair.  This is not hard to do, just making you aware of what you need to do.

If you decide to do, I will email you step by step instrucrtions if you need them.

My 2 cents. The MPJ is way better then the SPJ.


Jake,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

My neighbor may not have the adapter, but I can probably get one somewhere. It shouldn't be that hard, right? He's out of the area for a while, but when he gets back, I'll buy the joystick from him. He's charging me somewhere less than $100 (his words), is that a good deal?

Will having a different joystick on my chair adversely affect getting it serviced? Since the joystick is bare (no mounting arm/pole) can it attach to the same mount as my SPJ+?

Next, I'm sure I can borrow the programmer from the tech at my local shop (He's very laid back/understanding), as long as I don't take it out of the building. Once I clear the settings and put new ones in, can they be fine tuned from the joystick? I read somewhere that the MPJ+ supports TTJP, though I have no idea how flexible it is. How do I access it?

When I am reprogramming the joystick, can I use the programmer to change the names of the drive profiles, or will I be stuck with default names? Also, what is the difference between the pro and the user/basic memory card?

Once I have it in my possession, I plan to put a screen protector over the display, and either very small strips of screen protector or scotch tape over the on/off/drive, slow/fast, and mode legends near the knobs - I hate seeing stuff like that worn away from use. Anything else you can tell me about it would be appreciated.

Lastly, why is the MPJ+ so much better than the SPJ+, in your opinion? Just the ability have multiple profiles?
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jakeyboy1
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 07:35:43 pm »

MPJ msrp is $750 on chair and $995 off chair.  A working MPJ for $100 is a great deal.

Having a different joystick will not make any difference in servicing the chair.  Except if the MPJ dies, your funding source won't pay to replace it since they didn't purchase it with the chair.  

The MPJ has a different mount. Go to http://www.invacare.com, click on parts catalog and you can see pics.

To access TTJP in MK6 you need a pro card.   Just plug the pro card into the joystick, turn on, and the joystick becomes the programmer.  It is not very easy to program this way but possible.  They only way to get a pro card is to buy a programmer and one comes with it.

Changing drive names.  With a programmer or pro card you can do this.  

I think the MPJ is so much better because of the ability to have multiple profiles.  I like to have a indoor (slow) drive, speed/fast (high speed, low torque), and ramp (high torque/power low speed) drive.  

If you want to get a programmer, check out ebay.

Good luck!!  Glad to be of help.
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2009, 07:51:50 pm »

Quote from: jakeyboy1;1857
MPJ msrp is $750 on chair and $995 off chair.  A working MPJ for $100 is a great deal.

Having a different joystick will not make any difference in servicing the chair.  Except if the MPJ dies, your funding source won't pay to replace it since they didn't purchase it with the chair.  

The MPJ has a different mount. Go to [removed due to insufficient post count], click on parts catalog and you can see pics.

To access TTJP in MK6 you need a pro card.   Just plug the pro card into the joystick, turn on, and the joystick becomes the programmer.  It is not very easy to program this way but possible.  They only way to get a pro card is to buy a programmer and one comes with it.

Changing drive names.  With a programmer or pro card you can do this.  

I think the MPJ is so much better because of the ability to have multiple profiles.  I like to have a indoor (slow) drive, speed/fast (high speed, low torque), and ramp (high torque/power low speed) drive.  

If you want to get a programmer, check out ebay.

Good luck!!  Glad to be of help.


Jake,

I'll see what I can do about getting the adapter and mounting arm. Hopefully it should not be too difficult, even if I have to buy them from Invacare. I'll see if my tech can't order them. He's also looking into ordering manual wheel locks for me. I know they're cheap, only a $45 option on the order sheet, and they should prevent me from getting motion sickness due to the play in the gearbox when I'm in a vehicle.

As for needing the pro card to activate TTJP - Aren't the memory cards standard SD cards with different (PC accessible) files on them? If so, is there anything preventing me from borrowing the pro card from my local tech and taking the basic card out of the joystick, erasing it, and copying the contents of the pro card onto it?

Also, once I get my hands on a pro memory card - Although I'm sure the TTJP interface is less than optimal, does it allow access to all of the options a normal hand-held programmer has?

Oh yes - Now that I have the appropriate controls - If I should ever come upon a compatible tilt system on an old or wrecked chair - Can it be swapped over?

Now, if only the MK6i electronics would allow access to an odometer and speedometer display, I would consider the system complete. Unfortunately, I read that Invacare removed that, why I don't know.

Thanks again...
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jakeyboy1
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2009, 01:29:19 am »

Regarding creating your on "pro card": I have not tried that.  I'm not sure if it would work.  Worth a  try.  I have programmed chairs with just the pro card and it is worth getting the programmer.  I can program a chair with a programmer in 1min what a pro card would take 10.  (considering I do this for a living, it is worth it)

Getting a tilt to work with your base: If the tilt wasn't designed for your base, it would require a fair amount of fabrication to make it work.  

Reguarding odometer and speedometer: I hear that in MK7, it will be standard, and a clock too.
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2009, 04:08:07 am »

Quote from: jakeyboy1;1859
Regarding creating your on "pro card": I have not tried that.  I'm not sure if it would work.  Worth a  try.  I have programmed chairs with just the pro card and it is worth getting the programmer.  I can program a chair with a programmer in 1min what a pro card would take 10.  (considering I do this for a living, it is worth it)

Getting a tilt to work with your base: If the tilt wasn't designed for your base, it would require a fair amount of fabrication to make it work.  

Regarding odometer and speedometer: I hear that in MK7, it will be standard, and a clock too.


As soon as I can find a USB SD reader/writer (too bad they're not microSD, my PocketPC can work with them natively..) and I have the MPJ+ with the basic card in my possession, I'll drop by my tech's shop and see what I can arrange. If it works, great. Will the professional card hold all my settings, or will I need to buy another SD card and turn it into a basic card by moving the appropriate files onto it?

Although I agree that a programmer would be preferred, that's an extra $125 to $300 that I can spend on other more important things. As long as the card allows me to reprogram my chair, that's fine. Once I've fine-tuned each drive profile, I don't foresee the need to screw with them very much. Besides, if I really need a programmer, I can probably manage to borrow my tech's as long as I use it at the shop.

Having an odometer and speedometer in the MK5 electronics, removing them in the MK6i and putting them back in the MK7 is a slap in the face to everyone that has MK6i systems. For as much as these things cost (and also the fact that they're very similar to the MK5 systems), they should send out a software update that gives them back to us.
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DREDD
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2009, 02:02:28 pm »

YES YOU CAN
The pro and basic cards are just a standard SD card and can be used for anything, they have 128mb storage. Just delete the files from the basic card and copy ALL the pro files across and, bingo, you have a pro card. You will need a card reader and PC, then use the cut/copy and paste procedure. I do it all the time as our service agents use them as backup programmers and to store multiple client profiles. You can use them in your camera as well...
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KiwiJenn
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2009, 05:57:40 pm »

Quote from: jakeyboy1;1859
Reguarding odometer and speedometer: I hear that in MK7, it will be standard, and a clock too.

Cheesy:DWonder where they got those ideas from, mainly the 2nd one:D:D
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jakeyboy1
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2009, 10:35:22 pm »

customer feed back, and trying to keep up with Quantum....
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2009, 11:16:37 pm »

Quote from: jakeyboy1;1863
customer feed back, and trying to keep up with Quantum....


If they wanted to truly keep up (or exceed) Quantum, they'd take the design features the high-end Q6000z and incorporate them as standard equipment, for an immediate competitive advantage.

Their optional electronics? 100A & Q-Logic
Their optional speed package? 8 MPH
Their optional batteries/charger? Group 24's and an 8A charger.

Other options include a lighting package and wider tires for better traction.

If Invacare could duplicate this equipment, or exceed it, they would have an extremely solid advantage. And before anyone brings up the cost argument, I see no good reason for any of these things to cost Invacare a significant amount of cash over the normal build cost of a standard TDX SP. Of course, you can bet they wouldn't tell us that. They'd have us believe that the upgrade from a simple LED single profile joystick to one with a monochrome LCD and 4 profiles is worth $750 at a minimum. In truth? It's worth about $75.

Some day, should I ever have the money, and I meet someone who is good at engineering, I really would like to just order some parts and build my own high-spec chair. 120A controller, gearless/brushless motors, 8-10 MPH top speed, soft super low pressure tires for superior ride quality with kevlar reinforced rubber for superior puncture resistance, standard LED lighting, lithium-ion (or better) battery system, standard color LCD joystick with odometer, speedometer, and clock, multiple profiles (and battery gauge displayed as a percentage with 1% resolution), frame constructed of aluminum or other extremely strong & light material, etc.
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KiwiJenn
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 12:21:46 am »

Sorry guys I kinda changed topic didn't I.

Well I've been discussing things with Mike for awhile now about why some MK5 features were removed from MK6 and giving him a list of features I'd personally like to see added as an upgrade to MK6 or added to the MK7 when it comes out in the future.

When I read your reply jakyeyboy1 about the two features been added to the MK7 I got excited:D but I guess we will all see what will be an upgrade or added to new electronics.  Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by jakeyboy1                                    
                 customer feed back, and trying to keep up with Quantum....
Their optional speed package? 8 MPH - Pride lost the Torque/Power by increasing the speed I'm guessing.  To get the Torque Invacare needed to lower the speed by 1km/mph which isn't to much.  But yea it be nice to have 8.5mph and the Torque but I guess we can't get it both ways.  I was thinking Invacare should have two type of HDTTGB motors, 1 at 7.5mph max speed including Torque and the other HDTTGB set as a speed motor at 8.5mph or 10mph WOAHHHH

Their optional batteries/charger? Group 24's and an 8A charger. - TDX SP and TDX SR both come with 22 and 24s, if you get Elevate you get 22s or I guess x3 22s

Other options include a lighting package and wider tires for better traction. - Invacare NZ sell this
The TDX SP RAM (pole motors) can get up to speeds of the TDX SR with GB motors.

CLICK ME


Yea I'd love to do the same.Smiley

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Posted by SweetBearCub - Some day, should I ever have the money, and I meet someone who is good at engineering, I really would like to just order some parts and build my own high-spec chair. 120A controller, gearless/brushless motors, 8-10 MPH top speed, soft super low pressure tires for superior ride quality with kevlar reinforced rubber for superior puncture resistance, standard LED lighting, lithium-ion (or better) battery system, standard color LCD joystick with odometer, speedometer, and clock, multiple profiles (and battery gauge displayed as a percentage with 1% resolution), frame constructed of aluminum or other extremely strong & light material, etc.
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 09:34:11 pm »

Jenn,

While that modified TDX SP looks nice, its specs seem to be the same disappointing specs as the US-spec model, or darn close.

The specifications page lists its maximum speed as 9.6 KPH, which translates to about 5.925 MPH, an increase of only 0.125 MPH.

The TDX SR does 7.0 MPH, which translates to 11.34 KPH.

Or am I just missing something?

Thanks...
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DREDD
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2009, 01:53:35 pm »

Well, actually, we don't know how fast it really goes. It is faster than a TDXSR, that much we know, it gets up to speed quick, bit hairy on the turns and it's fun to drive. We are doing a similar set-up on an ARROW with GBs, now that's going to rocket.
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SweetBearCub
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2009, 02:06:35 pm »

Quote from: DREDD;1868
Well, actually, we don't know how fast it really goes. It is faster than a TDXSR, that much we know, it gets up to speed quick, bit hairy on the turns and it's fun to drive. We are doing a similar set-up on an ARROW with GBs, now that's going to rocket.


Can I ask what the setup entails? Is it just larger tires than the stock 14"x3" mounted on a modified wheel? If so, can you give me details on the dimensions of the wheel, any needed adapters, and the tires?

Also, I seem to recall from the wheelchairjunkie board that larger tires (or maybe only wider tires?) put an increased strain on the drivetrain, leading to breakdowns. How is that compensated for?

Thanks...
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